He was under no obligation to come out, but it makes me sick now that he markets himself as the best-known gay in the world AFTER all the hard work had been done by dogged “little” people

Actually Patchy, I believe this is precisely what StephenC is trying to say in his post, he says “Or are you reverting to the typical Israeli response of denouncing all criticism of the country (regardless of how justified) and automatically anti-semitic; merely to try to stifle very valid criticism of the country?”

Elton John toured apartheid era South Africa
Elton John will play the wedding party of a vicious homophobe for $1,000,000
Elton John plays in Israel despite the fact that they have imprisoned an entire country without trial.

Please point out specifically my anti-semitic comments. Or are you reverting to the typical Israeli response of denouncing all criticism of the country (regardless of how justified) and automatically anti-semitic; merely to try to stifle very valid criticism of the country?

Let’s not forget that the Palestinians are a semitic people also.

Do you therefore think Israel is also anti-semitic thanks to their appalling decision to imprison an entire country without trial?

Or are you applying double standards?

And becuase another country behaves in an inhuman way, its not necessarily okay to respond in kind. If that were the case we should have burned the German nation into ashes after the war for the crimes against humanity committed by the few. But I think you have already acknowledged that in your post.

It was not my intention to cause offence… well, except for my post to Jay, angry illiterate fools irritates me. I just have issues with polarised views, and perhaps I was unfair to judge you on that basis, so you have my apology if that was the case.

Lets just agree to disagree… unless one of us happens to be the UN Special Envoy to the Middle East, this is just an exchange of views.

You want facts; You didnt read, or have ignored my posts, and for sure I am not going to repeat them. I agree that Israel falls short of a perfect human rights record, but it is a damn sight better than Iran, Syria, and many of its other neighbours. That does not make it right, I agree (if I may be presumptuous) since it is the only civilised democracy in the area.

But do you not see, and understand, that the place is at war. The Palestinians lob bombs at them, trying to get as close as they can to the conurbations (Tel Aviv is their ultimate goal – think of the human life loss if they manage that), Hamas has as its policy, the very destruction of the State, Iran has a ruler who has constantly boasted that he wants to blow it off the face of the earth (and may soon have the weaponry to do just that), Hezbolla has said similar things, and frequently bombs northern Israel. I have personally seen a young Canadian girl blown to pieces while taking the sun on the beach in tel Aviv; I have been in a cafe which two hours after I left was blown up, killing and injuring, there are near daily attempts by suicide bombers to get into Israel to sit on a bus and blow its passengers to bits (thankfully these are now being thwarted but ……)

So, it is not easy to be whiter than white. Maybe their standards fall short – I think sometimes they do, sometimes they just get it wrong. But for goodness’ sake, you can’t view their actions out of context – that just is not fair, and for sure itis not balanced.

On a personal note, I do resent you saying that I do not have a balanced view, or for expressing a personal one. A personal view can (and in my case is) based on facts, as I read and have experienced them. I dont see what is wrong with that. As to balanced, you only have to read what I say, and the way that I say it, to see you have been harsh there.

No more replies from me here. I have said all I have to say on this subject. If you reply I will not respond. No offence is meant.

Yeah, and your English prowess doesn’t even cover the use of a spell checker, so pardon me if I don’t take your grammatically brilliant lunatic rants as anything serious. You need to chill, you’ll burst a blood vessel. Read a book or two while you’re at it.

And here lies how you are trapped in a one sided view. I never said Israel was bad or good, simply that the entire country must be evaluated on metric and facts, not in a “I believe” nonsense. I deal in facts, not “belief”. I am neither a supporter or detractor of Isearl, or any other country for that matter, simply one who informed oneself on the situation, and who is a supporter of human rights.

What I have tried to show you is that Israel, like other countries to varying degrees I’m sure, is an abuser of human rights. Israel has a appalling track record. That is fact. Nothing more. And when you “support” a country in such fashion as you do, you condone their actions, and give their actions credence – ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ and all that.

You speak of “realism”. But your posts in the first person “belief” fashion do not indicate realism… belief structures tend not to be too well endowed on the facts side, as a study on any religion would show you.

Its you who needs to step back, and make a balanced view. I’ve already done that. I’m sorry you can’t seem to see that, but its not really my problem. I deal in empiricism and facts, something your postings seem thin on the ground, alas.

Gay people are used to being unfairly demonized and hated by screwed up religions.

Long live Israel!

I am an Israel supporter generally. I make no apology for that nor hide it. That does not mean I am entirely uncritical. I hope that is clear from my posts. I hope also that I have a rational and thought through balanced view. it clearly differs from yours, but Israel is a topic which produces polarised views, often born out of ignorance and lack of knowledge. I do not refer to you here, but I really should be grateful if you would not dismiss my knowledge and views in the way you do, just because they are not yours. It is plain rude.

Yes, you can produce facts and statistiics, UN resolutions by the score (by the way, you know the Arab influence on the UN, of course), and in turn I can do the same and produce a mirror image. But there is just no point. I should have learned over the years not to engage with people on the subject; since just as you will never convince me that Israel is all bad, I will never convince you that it is all good. The truth is that it is both.

As to Israel’s position in the area, let me trot out the old cliche. What would happen if the countries surrounding put down their weapons? Israel would have nothing to defend, and no need to attack, since it has no aspirations to destroy its neighbours; but if Israel put down its weapons, it would be destroyed (according to its neighbours).

I am not going to engage with you further; as I say it will achieve nothing, except increase my blood pressure. I know you feel you are right. Who knows, you may be? But I do not think so, even though I will never convince you of it. If you respond to me and I do not do the same to you, it is neither discourtesy not cowardice, but rather realism.

I hope that this will not bee seen as a fanatacial tirade; it was not intended to be, but others can judge that.

my point is, wtf has it got to do with you or anyone else if elton plays a gig in israel? dont buy his records, im sure he’ll cope. him playing there is not the end of the world, and will not bring about trouble for anyone. There are no victims in what he’s done, so why judge him like most of you are doing on here. i dont even like the guy. him doing this gig means nothing, to anyone except the people who watched him, and elton who earned loads of money from it – good for him. he’ll probs go and play a gig in saudi next week. so what. the UK sells weapons to saudi, does that mean you go and protest the government to stop them selling arms to the most homophobic regime in the world. No it doesn’t. youre just another hypocrite with a knee jerk reaction for some cr4p news story that will have dissapeared from pink news in two days.

and i take it you live in a country that doesnt have a military, that doesnt spend money on bombs and killing people to defend itself. no you just pretend to be a pacifist whilst hiding behind a government that spends 40 billion on its military, and earns tax from companies that sells bombs, planes etc to the rest of the world.

I think vulpus has a good point – id rather someone go and play piano and sing some songs in israel where at least in parts they are a progressive society, (no ones saying they are perfect Will – guess what, no where is) than stick up for a load of homophobic muslims in palestine who think its a good idea to kill people just like YOU.

i still think my advice is the best. anyone reacting strongly to this story needs to get out more. its just a stupid popstar singing some songs. get over it.

The European Court of Human Rights, The International Court of Justice, and the UN all carry out legally binding investigations on behalf of nations that have violated human rights. An independent inquiry is the recommend course of action, as requested by the UN Security Council, applicable I think when one nation board an unarmed ship and shoots 1/9/15/100+ people…. the numbers are irrelevant, the violation of rights isn’t.

And to those who think backing Israel with unwavering support simply because it allows a few gays bars, overlooking its track record of human rights abuses globally, is somewhat polarised views and very uninformed.

Israel is a religious state, after all. According to a 2009 report from the U.S. State Department Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor, Israel falls short of being a tolerant or pluralistic society. According to the report, Israel discriminates against Muslims, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Reform Jews, Christians, women and Bedouins. Israel only recognises and protects Jewish holy sites, ignoring and neglecting all Christian and Muslim sites. All 137 official holy sites are Jewish.

In 2004-2005 alone the U.N. General Assembly passed nineteen resolutions concerning Israel. In September 2009 the UN found in the Goldstone report that the blockade of Gaza amounted to collective punishment and was thus illegal.

And even on the purported gay rights, they still have a long way to go, like on February 20, 2008, Shlomo Benizri, a Knesset member from the religious Shas party, a member of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert’s ruling coalition, blamed earthquakes that had recently struck the Middle East on the activities of homosexuals.

Israel is not the idealised and innocent country that some here claim it to be, it has a long way to go, and blindly supporting this kind of human rights abuse behaviour unchallenged is ignorance. If you demand a balanced argument, then at least have the facts, and give an unbiased view, not a fanatical tirade.

So, therefore you ignore the press reports to staunchly be pro-Israel? Hmm. Very enlightened view.

MartinM – have to smile – you talk about having an enquiry, being “accused” then, describe it as a “murderous raid”. So, no prejudging then?

It is quite clear that a person who is accused of a serious crime should not investigate and judge the outcome.

That is what Israel intends to do with the murderous raid on international waters.

And in the meantime they have alienated Turkey – one of their most important strategic allies and pretty much the only muslim country in the world who gets along with them.

in typical Israeli fashion I am sure they will blame everyone else as usual and refuse to take any responsibility for their own actions, and if the heat gets too much then they’ll revert to the lazy accusation of anti-semitism.

By the way we all know don’t we that Elton John played a series of concerts in South Africa during the height of the Apartheid regime in South Africa don’t we.

Elton John has a history of prostitution

http://www.bt.com.bn/life/2008/01/13/recalling_sin_of_shows_in_apartheid_s_africa