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	<title>Comments on: Harriet Harman confirms climbdown over gay church employees</title>
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	<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/</link>
	<description>News, reviews and comment from Europe&#039;s largest gay news service</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 03:28:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Yewtree</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95588</link>
		<dc:creator>Yewtree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95588</guid>
		<description>This is a very disappointing outcome. That said, I wouldn&#039;t want to work for a homophobic organisation anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very disappointing outcome. That said, I wouldn&#8217;t want to work for a homophobic organisation anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: RJ</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95512</link>
		<dc:creator>RJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95512</guid>
		<description>Sorry . . . the L&amp;G - typo there . LoL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry . . . the L&amp;G &#8211; typo there . LoL</p>
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		<title>By: RJ</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95511</link>
		<dc:creator>RJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95511</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t want to sound like a broken record, however I&#039;ll say it again.  Labour ONLY bring in equality laws for the LGBT community when the European Courts threaten to take them to task.

The ONLY party to vote for to ensure that we have FULL equality for the LGB and T community is the Liberal Democrats.  The ONLY MPs raising their voices for us are the LibDems, especially Dr Evan Harris and Lynne Featherstone.  Where are the L&amp;B Labour MPs?  Hiding away for fear of the ministerial positions!

Don&#039;t complain again if you continue to vote for Labour and / or the Conservatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t want to sound like a broken record, however I&#8217;ll say it again.  Labour ONLY bring in equality laws for the LGBT community when the European Courts threaten to take them to task.</p>
<p>The ONLY party to vote for to ensure that we have FULL equality for the LGB and T community is the Liberal Democrats.  The ONLY MPs raising their voices for us are the LibDems, especially Dr Evan Harris and Lynne Featherstone.  Where are the L&amp;B Labour MPs?  Hiding away for fear of the ministerial positions!</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t complain again if you continue to vote for Labour and / or the Conservatives.</p>
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		<title>By: Chester</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95464</link>
		<dc:creator>Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95464</guid>
		<description>RobN - not all of the left support Labour especially as they aren&#039;t into equality 
plus you stereotype</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RobN &#8211; not all of the left support Labour especially as they aren&#8217;t into equality<br />
plus you stereotype</p>
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		<title>By: theotherone</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95406</link>
		<dc:creator>theotherone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95406</guid>
		<description>why not? We&#039;ve been governed by the TB Church and now the GB Church, now it&#039;s the RC Church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>why not? We&#8217;ve been governed by the TB Church and now the GB Church, now it&#8217;s the RC Church.</p>
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		<title>By: TC</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95403</link>
		<dc:creator>TC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95403</guid>
		<description>After Italy and Poland, it&#039;s now GB&#039;s turn to be governed by the catholic church !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After Italy and Poland, it&#8217;s now GB&#8217;s turn to be governed by the catholic church !</p>
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		<title>By: RobN</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95381</link>
		<dc:creator>RobN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95381</guid>
		<description>Ah yes. The supportive, gay rights leaders, peoples party have done a complete youee and run away from confronting the church.

Had this been a Tory government, there would have been screams of &quot;Homophobia!&quot; to raise the roof. But oh, no. This is the party all you lefties want us all to support because of their attitudes to gay people. 


Well there you have it in a nutshell: They just shafted us.
Don&#039;t tell me any other party can do any worse. The next time some socialist dickhead on here rants on about Labour&#039;s record on gay rights, I&#039;m going to take this article and ram it down their self-opinionated, blinkered throats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah yes. The supportive, gay rights leaders, peoples party have done a complete youee and run away from confronting the church.</p>
<p>Had this been a Tory government, there would have been screams of &#8220;Homophobia!&#8221; to raise the roof. But oh, no. This is the party all you lefties want us all to support because of their attitudes to gay people. </p>
<p>Well there you have it in a nutshell: They just shafted us.<br />
Don&#8217;t tell me any other party can do any worse. The next time some socialist dickhead on here rants on about Labour&#8217;s record on gay rights, I&#8217;m going to take this article and ram it down their self-opinionated, blinkered throats.</p>
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		<title>By: john sharp</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95352</link>
		<dc:creator>john sharp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95352</guid>
		<description>so i can discriminate Christians
on the base they are anti gays 
thanks i will respond to  the Christians war  against US</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so i can discriminate Christians<br />
on the base they are anti gays<br />
thanks i will respond to  the Christians war  against US</p>
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		<title>By: theotherone</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95302</link>
		<dc:creator>theotherone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95302</guid>
		<description>related but not particularly Queer is the news that three Labour MPs who are facing prosecution over very, very dodgy expenses claims will be claiming Parliamentary Privilege to stop the prosecution.

A Party of honorable people obviously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>related but not particularly Queer is the news that three Labour MPs who are facing prosecution over very, very dodgy expenses claims will be claiming Parliamentary Privilege to stop the prosecution.</p>
<p>A Party of honorable people obviously.</p>
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		<title>By: theotherone</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95301</link>
		<dc:creator>theotherone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95301</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t expect much back from them - something totally and utterly non comital.

Perhaps they&#039;ll send the police round to my house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t expect much back from them &#8211; something totally and utterly non comital.</p>
<p>Perhaps they&#8217;ll send the police round to my house.</p>
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		<title>By: Sister Mary clarence</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95300</link>
		<dc:creator>Sister Mary clarence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95300</guid>
		<description>Again, very nice theotherone - please let us hear any response you get (even if its a non-response)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, very nice theotherone &#8211; please let us hear any response you get (even if its a non-response)</p>
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		<title>By: theotherone</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95291</link>
		<dc:creator>theotherone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95291</guid>
		<description>I have sent the following email in responce to the reply I receved from HH&#039;s office (see the other story on this topic for the text of that email):

Dear -----,

Thankyou for your reply on the 4th of February.

I find it odd that, when this Government has been more than willing to &#039;take on&#039; The Lords you have decided, in this insistence, to back down. The to and fro between the Upper and Lower Chambers is part of our Democracy and, at it&#039;s best, allows for a better law as it has, rather like a pebble in the sea, had it&#039;s rough edges knocked off. 

I can not understand why the Government has, in this instance, chosen to not engage in any debate with the Upper House. My concern is that this decision has more to do with appeasing religious groups given the imminent Papal visit and the similarly imminent General election. With these and similar misgivings in mind both myself and several of my Queer friends feel we can no longer support the Labour Party if it would rather appease religious groups than allow us basic Human Rights accepted as the bare minimum that a country can award it&#039;s citizens by the European court Of Human Rights.

Can you please give more details as to the Government&#039;s reasons for refusing to continue with this piece of legislation and can you assure both myslef and the people I know who, like myself, are troubled by this decision that it does not show (as it appears to) a new direction in Government policy in the run up to the General Election.
 
Yours,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have sent the following email in responce to the reply I receved from HH&#8217;s office (see the other story on this topic for the text of that email):</p>
<p>Dear &#8212;&#8211;,</p>
<p>Thankyou for your reply on the 4th of February.</p>
<p>I find it odd that, when this Government has been more than willing to &#8216;take on&#8217; The Lords you have decided, in this insistence, to back down. The to and fro between the Upper and Lower Chambers is part of our Democracy and, at it&#8217;s best, allows for a better law as it has, rather like a pebble in the sea, had it&#8217;s rough edges knocked off. </p>
<p>I can not understand why the Government has, in this instance, chosen to not engage in any debate with the Upper House. My concern is that this decision has more to do with appeasing religious groups given the imminent Papal visit and the similarly imminent General election. With these and similar misgivings in mind both myself and several of my Queer friends feel we can no longer support the Labour Party if it would rather appease religious groups than allow us basic Human Rights accepted as the bare minimum that a country can award it&#8217;s citizens by the European court Of Human Rights.</p>
<p>Can you please give more details as to the Government&#8217;s reasons for refusing to continue with this piece of legislation and can you assure both myslef and the people I know who, like myself, are troubled by this decision that it does not show (as it appears to) a new direction in Government policy in the run up to the General Election.</p>
<p>Yours,</p>
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		<title>By: theotherone</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95284</link>
		<dc:creator>theotherone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95284</guid>
		<description>alas kaz, as you say, Labour have hardly proven themselves reliable have they?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>alas kaz, as you say, Labour have hardly proven themselves reliable have they?</p>
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		<title>By: Omar Kuddus GayAsylum UK</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95278</link>
		<dc:creator>Omar Kuddus GayAsylum UK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95278</guid>
		<description>Why cant the British government for once respect and understand that we are a multifathe country and leave religon out of politics and the decisions it makes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why cant the British government for once respect and understand that we are a multifathe country and leave religon out of politics and the decisions it makes.</p>
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		<title>By: Neville</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95257</link>
		<dc:creator>Neville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95257</guid>
		<description>Religious employers may try to find excuses to dismiss gay employees, but they will then have to face industrial tribunals which may give them pause for thought.   Stonewall has said that it will support any gay employee who is dismissed.   This is another factor which may act as some kind of brake on any wholesale attempts to discriminate, for it would soon become obvious if a number of cases reached tribunals in which the complainants were gay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Religious employers may try to find excuses to dismiss gay employees, but they will then have to face industrial tribunals which may give them pause for thought.   Stonewall has said that it will support any gay employee who is dismissed.   This is another factor which may act as some kind of brake on any wholesale attempts to discriminate, for it would soon become obvious if a number of cases reached tribunals in which the complainants were gay.</p>
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		<title>By: Jean-Paul Bentham</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95251</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean-Paul Bentham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95251</guid>
		<description>Aim for the Moon, I always say. 

Who wouldn&#039;t want a non-unionized, minimum salary job with the RCC who will overwork you till you drop and get away without paying you any retirement benefits?

Let&#039;s all form a tidy line-up now, and no shoving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aim for the Moon, I always say. </p>
<p>Who wouldn&#8217;t want a non-unionized, minimum salary job with the RCC who will overwork you till you drop and get away without paying you any retirement benefits?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s all form a tidy line-up now, and no shoving.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaz</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95241</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95241</guid>
		<description>I just wish that the Church (of varying denominations) and the Pope in particular would keep their bloody noses out of British law.
And the Labour Party is no more reliable, trustworthy or on our side than the Conservatives. This story proves that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wish that the Church (of varying denominations) and the Pope in particular would keep their bloody noses out of British law.<br />
And the Labour Party is no more reliable, trustworthy or on our side than the Conservatives. This story proves that.</p>
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		<title>By: Sammy</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95239</link>
		<dc:creator>Sammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95239</guid>
		<description>Cowards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cowards.</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95238</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95238</guid>
		<description>But Neville, if an employer really wants to get rid of someone because, for example, they are gay, then they will find an excuse to do so.  They will claim the individual is dismissed for some other trumped-up reason so as to get around the law by claiming the person was not singled out for being gay, even if they were.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Neville, if an employer really wants to get rid of someone because, for example, they are gay, then they will find an excuse to do so.  They will claim the individual is dismissed for some other trumped-up reason so as to get around the law by claiming the person was not singled out for being gay, even if they were.</p>
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		<title>By: Neville</title>
		<link>http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95232</link>
		<dc:creator>Neville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/02/05/harriet-harman-confirms-climbdown-over-gay-church-employees/#comment-95232</guid>
		<description>The sacking of those who do not live by the tenets of the church concerned will not be permitted under European law.   Exceptions to this are very limited.   The courts will make this very clear.  Any other interpretation is based on lack of knowledge of the 2003 Employment Regulations!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sacking of those who do not live by the tenets of the church concerned will not be permitted under European law.   Exceptions to this are very limited.   The courts will make this very clear.  Any other interpretation is based on lack of knowledge of the 2003 Employment Regulations!</p>
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