Comments on: Exemptions allowing churches to refuse to employ gays to be scrapped following pressure from EU http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/ PinkNews.co.uk Gay News (UK and world) from Pink News - all the gay news for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered community in the UK and beyond- thegaynews from Pink News Thu, 09 Sep 2010 14:30:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: BrazilBoysBlog http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-2/#comment-84321 BrazilBoysBlog Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:45:38 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-84321 We fought long and hard for some sort of level legal playing field. If it takes the EU to 'impose' one... the same EU that we voted to join and choose to remain in, then more power to the EU I say! I also agree with Paul's comments re: Nation States (38) When anyone asks me here in Brazil, I'm a 'European', not 'British'. ..and as for the comment above (59), you have miss-read it... The commission was saying that (the churches) are using broader exceptions than are permitted by the directive... They therefore agreed with the complaint and call upon the UK Government to abide with the rules. So it IS a cause to celebrate. We fought long and hard for some sort of level legal playing field. If it takes the EU to 'impose' one… the same EU that we voted to join and choose to remain in, then more power to the EU I say! I also agree with Paul's comments re: Nation States (38) When anyone asks me here in Brazil, I'm a 'European', not 'British'.

..and as for the comment above (59), you have miss-read it… The commission was saying that (the churches) are using broader exceptions than are permitted by the directive… They therefore agreed with the complaint and call upon the UK Government to abide with the rules. So it IS a cause to celebrate.

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]]> By: tsuchan http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-2/#comment-83558 tsuchan Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:40:15 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83558 There are a lot of positive comments about this news, which is understandable from the headline. But I read the whole article, and I'm more concerned than overjoyed: <blockquote>"The Commission reportedly agreed with the complaint saying "exceptions to the principle of non-discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation for religious employers are broader than that permitted by the directive"."</blockquote> From my perspective, the actual breadth of acceptable discrimination is sufficiently narrow that they don't stand-up at all... ie. none! There are a lot of positive comments about this news, which is understandable from the headline. But I read the whole article, and I'm more concerned than overjoyed:

"The Commission reportedly agreed with the complaint saying "exceptions to the principle of non-discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation for religious employers are broader than that permitted by the directive"."

From my perspective, the actual breadth of acceptable discrimination is sufficiently narrow that they don't stand-up at all… ie. none!

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]]> By: George Manning http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-2/#comment-83556 George Manning Tue, 24 Nov 2009 06:53:22 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83556 "you are a total Scum-Bag who is not fit to lick my boots-Go piss up your Kilt and play with the steam-clown!" What are you, 5 years old?!? LOL. What a truly fabulous intellectual response that was. And so cutting too! You are simply a darling of an idiot, Brian! "you are a total Scum-Bag who is not fit to lick my boots-Go piss up your Kilt and play with the steam-clown!"

What are you, 5 years old?!? LOL. What a truly fabulous intellectual response that was. And so cutting too! You are simply a darling of an idiot, Brian!

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]]> By: Keith Bradley-Wilson http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-2/#comment-83538 Keith Bradley-Wilson Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:33:59 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83538 "Christian charity Care told the Observer: "If evangelical churches cannot be sure that they can employ practising evangelicals with respect to sexual ethics, how will they be able to continue?" Very simple: they won't! "Christian charity Care told the Observer: "If evangelical churches cannot be sure that they can employ practising evangelicals with respect to sexual ethics, how will they be able to continue?"

Very simple: they won't!

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]]> By: Lucius http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-2/#comment-83505 Lucius Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:40:04 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83505 @SamH: You would be correct in saying that your viewpoint is skewed. Why do people think that the EU is a jail of some sort? The European Comission is just a guardian of contracts, and Vladimir Špidla was put forth by the Czech republic to fill this post, he wasn't somehow imposed upon us. I dislike the "hard" separation of powers in the USA immensely, yet I don't spew nonsense on these boards. Please educate yourself. @SamH:

You would be correct in saying that your viewpoint is skewed. Why do people think that the EU is a jail of some sort? The European Comission is just a guardian of contracts, and Vladimir Špidla was put forth by the Czech republic to fill this post, he wasn't somehow imposed upon us.

I dislike the "hard" separation of powers in the USA immensely, yet I don't spew nonsense on these boards. Please educate yourself.

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]]> By: Brian Burton http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-2/#comment-83495 Brian Burton Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:59:15 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83495 Harvey, I've finished on this thread. Harvey, I've finished on this thread.

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]]> By: Harvey http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-2/#comment-83490 Harvey Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:37:21 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83490 Brian 'Grow-up' is just patronising, Your comments just plain rude. No need fella! Brian 'Grow-up' is just patronising, Your comments just plain rude. No need fella!

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]]> By: Brian Burton http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-2/#comment-83488 Brian Burton Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:29:41 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83488 Harvey, You can't argue with a congenital idiot! Harvey, You can't argue with a congenital idiot!

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]]> By: Harvey http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-2/#comment-83482 Harvey Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:12:43 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83482 Can't help thinking that once you start insulting one another you've lost the arguement! Can't help thinking that once you start insulting one another you've lost the arguement!

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]]> By: Brian Burton http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-2/#comment-83479 Brian Burton Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:05:12 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83479 George Manning, You are what I should have said in the first inctance, you are a total Scum-Bag who is not fit to lick my boots-Go piss up your Kilt and play with the steam-clown! George Manning,
You are what I should have said in the first inctance, you are a total Scum-Bag who is not fit to lick my boots-Go piss up your Kilt and play with the steam-clown!

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]]> By: George Manning http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-83450 George Manning Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:36:26 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83450 Apology for what? You trying to gain acceptance of an organisation that doesn't accept you and condemns you, and us, at every turn? No, I will not apologise for that. You are a coward, you just can't see it. Its you who needs to apologise to the rest of us for support an organisation that is oppressing the rest of us. Maybe coward was the wrong word. Stupid is probably a better one. Oh, and Brian, age is not an indicator of wisdom, as in your case. Grow up still applies to you, you have obviously still an awful lot to learn. Apology for what? You trying to gain acceptance of an organisation that doesn't accept you and condemns you, and us, at every turn? No, I will not apologise for that. You are a coward, you just can't see it. Its you who needs to apologise to the rest of us for support an organisation that is oppressing the rest of us. Maybe coward was the wrong word. Stupid is probably a better one.

Oh, and Brian, age is not an indicator of wisdom, as in your case. Grow up still applies to you, you have obviously still an awful lot to learn.

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]]> By: Simon Murphy http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-83439 Simon Murphy Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:59:41 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83439 The religions have a choice. They should either abide fully with the equality laws (which the EU says they must do) or they must not be paid a single penny from the state purse and must lose all their tax exemptions and charitable statuses and all the other fringe benefits they get. Religion is an industry which needs money to survive the same as any other industry. If they want special treatment when it comes to their funding and taxing (which no other group enjoys) then they damned well should abide fully with the laws of the land. The religions have a choice.

They should either abide fully with the equality laws (which the EU says they must do) or they must not be paid a single penny from the state purse and must lose all their tax exemptions and charitable statuses and all the other fringe benefits they get.

Religion is an industry which needs money to survive the same as any other industry. If they want special treatment when it comes to their funding and taxing (which no other group enjoys) then they damned well should abide fully with the laws of the land.

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]]> By: Robert, ex pat Brit http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-83437 Robert, ex pat Brit Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:53:56 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83437 Well done, EU. NOBODY should be above the law. Now lets hope the EU goes an extra mile and mandate full marriage equality and disestablishing state religion altogether. Let them support themselves instead of sponging off the state and taxpayers alike as well as go out and find real jobs. Well done, EU. NOBODY should be above the law. Now lets hope the EU goes an extra mile and mandate full marriage equality and disestablishing state religion altogether. Let them support themselves instead of sponging off the state and taxpayers alike as well as go out and find real jobs.

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]]> By: Brian Burton http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-83436 Brian Burton Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:49:06 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83436 George Manning, I had already grown (more than your puny self will ever grow!) when I watched Lord Montague, Michael Pitt-Rivers and Peter Wildblood Sent to Prison for Homosexual offences in the late 1950s. So, before religion there was the State creating it's laws. Laws made by right-wing narrow minds of the ruling classes that was once. You Freely use the word 'Coward' as though you know what a coward is? I think an apogogy is required from you Mr. Manning! George Manning,
I had already grown (more than your puny self will ever grow!) when I watched Lord Montague, Michael Pitt-Rivers and Peter Wildblood Sent to Prison for Homosexual offences in the late 1950s. So, before religion there was the State creating it's laws. Laws made by right-wing narrow minds of the ruling classes that was once. You Freely use the word 'Coward' as though you know what a coward is? I think an apogogy is required from you Mr. Manning!

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]]> By: Will http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-83433 Will Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:34:03 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83433 "Luckily they are the most caring parents whose views have changed and except me and my partner more than a lot of parents would." Harvey, I don't dispute this, I think you're very lucky to have parents who were wise and intelligent enough to accept their son despite their beliefs, or to actually change their beliefs becuase of you. But that doesn't detract from a law that allows an organisation to discriminate against people just on sexuality and simply becuase they believe it to be okay. The law is there for the good of all its citizens, not a religious majority (or minority). This law says to society at large, its okay to condemn, and offer another less rights just becuase you belief it to be so.... its how the KKK got started. Its why 6m Jews ended up in a gas chamber. Its not what human rights in a democracy is about. "Luckily they are the most caring parents whose views have changed and except me and my partner more than a lot of parents would."

Harvey, I don't dispute this, I think you're very lucky to have parents who were wise and intelligent enough to accept their son despite their beliefs, or to actually change their beliefs becuase of you.

But that doesn't detract from a law that allows an organisation to discriminate against people just on sexuality and simply becuase they believe it to be okay. The law is there for the good of all its citizens, not a religious majority (or minority). This law says to society at large, its okay to condemn, and offer another less rights just becuase you belief it to be so…. its how the KKK got started. Its why 6m Jews ended up in a gas chamber. Its not what human rights in a democracy is about.

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]]> By: Harvey http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-83432 Harvey Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:30:28 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83432 Maybe we should all take time out to see how lucky we all are. Whilst i agree more could be done, we have legal rights, civil partnerships etc. We're so priviledged compared with the experiences of those of Iran to name but one... Maybe we should all take time out to see how lucky we all are. Whilst i agree more could be done, we have legal rights, civil partnerships etc. We're so priviledged compared with the experiences of those of Iran to name but one…

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]]> By: George Manning http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-83429 George Manning Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:29:00 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83429 @ Brian. Grow up. "Gay Christian" is a contradiction in terms. What you mean to say is you're a "coward who supports an organisation that discriminates against yourself". @ Will. The day a society allows discrimination based on belief, is the day it begins to move towards a dictatorship of the "elite":- Great line. Is it a quote? @ Brian. Grow up. "Gay Christian" is a contradiction in terms. What you mean to say is you're a "coward who supports an organisation that discriminates against yourself".

@ Will. The day a society allows discrimination based on belief, is the day it begins to move towards a dictatorship of the "elite":- Great line. Is it a quote?

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]]> By: Harvey http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-83425 Harvey Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:26:05 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83425 Will:- I've worked in a hospital, as well as other places. I have never hidden the fact I'm gay however never felt the need to scream it to all that move. I was taught RE in school but never told being gay was wrong (though never told it was right either). I grow up with very religious parents who shared the bible beliefs so believe me I DO know how it feels. Luckily they are the most caring parents whose views have changed and except me and my partner more than a lot of parents would. Its all about understanding or rather the fear of not understanding thats the real problem. Will:- I've worked in a hospital, as well as other places. I have never hidden the fact I'm gay however never felt the need to scream it to all that move. I was taught RE in school but never told being gay was wrong (though never told it was right either). I grow up with very religious parents who shared the bible beliefs so believe me I DO know how it feels. Luckily they are the most caring parents whose views have changed and except me and my partner more than a lot of parents would. Its all about understanding or rather the fear of not understanding thats the real problem.

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]]> By: Mike http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-83424 Mike Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:25:15 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83424 Good move by the EU! No discrimination should be allowed on Relgious grounds! Good move by the EU! No discrimination should be allowed on Relgious grounds!

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]]> By: Will http://www.pinknews.org/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-83422 Will Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:19:04 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/22/exemptions-allowing-churches-to-refuse-to-employ-gays-to-be-scraped-following-pressure-from-eu/#comment-83422 "I have never had to give my sexual orientation for a job interveiw. Is it ever asked for? If so, that would be discrimination too." And if it emerges during the course of your work for whatever reason that you are gay, you think its okay then to be fired without legal recourse becuase of your sexuality? That's what will happen with this law, its already the case in Ireland. Should people be obliged to keep their sexuality, and their partner, quite and secret just to keep their job? "I have never had to give my sexual orientation for a job interveiw. Is it ever asked for? If so, that would be discrimination too."

And if it emerges during the course of your work for whatever reason that you are gay, you think its okay then to be fired without legal recourse becuase of your sexuality? That's what will happen with this law, its already the case in Ireland. Should people be obliged to keep their sexuality, and their partner, quite and secret just to keep their job?

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